This is incorrect. And the GNU tools would be much better if they were object-oriented like PS is. No I don’t have PS on my personal machines (Cachy btw) but that’s genuinely a super great feature. It’s an idea who’s time has come (ages ago)
Yeah, having to take the extra steps to parse strings every time is far superior to objects that can sort, filter, and give you the exact properties you need natively
I mean, if your complaint is a heavier overhead, sure, but for most uses as an interactive shell or for smaller scripts, I don’t really see how that would negatively impact you in meaningful ways compared to having to splice raw text and hope the package maintainer doesn’t decide to add a column in a future update
The most powerful stuff will always be script/CLI/shell based. Guis only work so and so well, but having multi step procedures requires something else.
A lot of apple’s design philosophy hides the technical detail, to try and create a friction-free user experience. Android does the same thing, but apple were doing it earlier and on desktop devices to some extent. Windows back in the day was significantly more transparent, although I don’t know if I can say the same for modern windows
That’s well and good for some things, but the concern that it reduces the natural tendency to become highly tech literate is genuine.
add to that that for some time in history it was quite common to build your own pc (something that abviously went away with rise of laptops), which required whole other level of understanding.
This has been my experience and have anecdotal evidence of people who can use a Mac but don’t understand any of it. One customer we had problems with until we just cut it off was that she’d have issues with her Mac and couldn’t navigate it effectively to try troubleshooting. She didn’t understand how to install on it so we could run remote management software.
You used entirely different OSes than me then. Macs were not easy to use while windows was standard. If you were using a Mac you were learning a lot more since the majority of PCs in homes were windows and you didn’t have to do anything on them.
No. The only hard thing with macs was and is tivoization, because they want to decide what you can install and what not; that’s the reason why jailbreaks and things as brew and all that had to be created.
That is only recently. If you actually did a study across all kids from when Macs first came out, they would lean heavily opposite of what you’re saying.
Also brew is a wild thing to say is “Apple deciding what you can install”. Windows literally didn’t even have a package manager until recently. So either your argument is that you couldn’t install things properly on windows until recently or your argument is that it was harder to install stuff on Mac the further back in time you go. Both of those logical paths lead to “Mac is harder and more technical to use” rather than the opposite.
Yeah, but brew was (and is) a community PM, and then there’s Scoop, for example, in Windows. Literally the reason why brew was created is that without it, macOS only would let you install packages from their limited store, and what I meant is that was literally the only hard thing about them. Most of people will simply just use the store. And I’m not trying to say that Windows is harder to use, you’re putting words in my mouth to make an straw man. What I’m saying is that both are equally stupidly easy and limited.
your car’s main control unit may also be based on bsd (i have no idea whether that is in fact the case) but surprisingly most people would not call themselves experts on car electronic just because they drive a car.
while a lot of people considers themselves to be “it experts” just because they were raised by youtube instead of their parents since the age of 2.
My school system used macs before OSX and switched to Windows almost entirely when OS 9 was still the latest thing. Sounds like another user had the same experience. OS 9 was nothing like unix and had no terminal even, to my knowledge.
i think the hypothesis is that windows kids have general tech literacy and problem solving skills and OSX kids dont. and linux users are autustic ;-]
The most powerful things windows can do are gui based and the most powerful things macos can do are in the cli
Not saying everyone bothers going that deep but there is a reason most software engineers and other professionals would prefer mac over windows
Windows is an inconsistent mess and their terminal tools are afterthoughts
I don’t know if that’s accurate. Have you seen PowerShell? It’s so good, some people install it on Linux to use as their main shell
This just proves the world has deeply disturbed people
Nonsense, c# developers might install it on Linux but nobody who understands unix like systems considers it
No he is sorta right, powershell is actually kinda fire.
I use it daily, there is no point putting it on a unix like system
One day we will be rid of windows servers and I won’t have to use poweshell ever again
And that’ll be a sad day; powershell is one of approximately two great things that Microsoft ever did.
It’s a little verbose in its commands, but it’s very good.
This is incorrect. And the GNU tools would be much better if they were object-oriented like PS is. No I don’t have PS on my personal machines (Cachy btw) but that’s genuinely a super great feature. It’s an idea who’s time has come (ages ago)
That might be true if *NIX had another shell with an object-based pipeline, or if PowerShell wasn’t object-based
I’d argue most people who dismiss PowerShell offhand like that don’t understand it particularly well
Most gnu / bad tools are essentially objects, you just have to xarg the column you want
Object orientated anything is pretty terrible
Yeah, having to take the extra steps to parse strings every time is far superior to objects that can sort, filter, and give you the exact properties you need natively
I mean, if your complaint is a heavier overhead, sure, but for most uses as an interactive shell or for smaller scripts, I don’t really see how that would negatively impact you in meaningful ways compared to having to splice raw text and hope the package maintainer doesn’t decide to add a column in a future update
The most powerful stuff will always be script/CLI/shell based. Guis only work so and so well, but having multi step procedures requires something else.
Windows included
Seems right (I use Linux)
That would be a very weird conclusion when Macs were generally the ones taught in school, and are also based on BSD.
A lot of apple’s design philosophy hides the technical detail, to try and create a friction-free user experience. Android does the same thing, but apple were doing it earlier and on desktop devices to some extent. Windows back in the day was significantly more transparent, although I don’t know if I can say the same for modern windows
That’s well and good for some things, but the concern that it reduces the natural tendency to become highly tech literate is genuine.
add to that that for some time in history it was quite common to build your own pc (something that abviously went away with rise of laptops), which required whole other level of understanding.
I built my laptop. Framework user fwiw
went not isn’t
First time witnessing a stroke over the internet
SoE
This has been my experience and have anecdotal evidence of people who can use a Mac but don’t understand any of it. One customer we had problems with until we just cut it off was that she’d have issues with her Mac and couldn’t navigate it effectively to try troubleshooting. She didn’t understand how to install on it so we could run remote management software.
You used entirely different OSes than me then. Macs were not easy to use while windows was standard. If you were using a Mac you were learning a lot more since the majority of PCs in homes were windows and you didn’t have to do anything on them.
No. The only hard thing with macs was and is tivoization, because they want to decide what you can install and what not; that’s the reason why jailbreaks and things as brew and all that had to be created.
That is only recently. If you actually did a study across all kids from when Macs first came out, they would lean heavily opposite of what you’re saying.
Also brew is a wild thing to say is “Apple deciding what you can install”. Windows literally didn’t even have a package manager until recently. So either your argument is that you couldn’t install things properly on windows until recently or your argument is that it was harder to install stuff on Mac the further back in time you go. Both of those logical paths lead to “Mac is harder and more technical to use” rather than the opposite.
Yeah, but brew was (and is) a community PM, and then there’s Scoop, for example, in Windows. Literally the reason why brew was created is that without it, macOS only would let you install packages from their limited store, and what I meant is that was literally the only hard thing about them. Most of people will simply just use the store. And I’m not trying to say that Windows is harder to use, you’re putting words in my mouth to make an straw man. What I’m saying is that both are equally stupidly easy and limited.
your car’s main control unit may also be based on bsd (i have no idea whether that is in fact the case) but surprisingly most people would not call themselves experts on car electronic just because they drive a car.
while a lot of people considers themselves to be “it experts” just because they were raised by youtube instead of their parents since the age of 2.
My school system used macs before OSX and switched to Windows almost entirely when OS 9 was still the latest thing. Sounds like another user had the same experience. OS 9 was nothing like unix and had no terminal even, to my knowledge.
Apple hasn’t always used a Unix-like system, though. The old Mac OS on those school computers was it’s own beast.
And now it seems like schools go for either chromebooks or tablets anyway.
Where? Not in Spain. In fact no one I know was taught computers in Mac.